Sunday, May 20, 2012

Please Pray for Atheists.

If any one on this planet needs prayers, it's atheists.  I mean we pray for them on Good Friday, let's continue.

I'm no good at confronting them.  Maybe the Most Holy Spirit can do something with a meddlesome little troll of an atheist.


salvage said...

Meddlesome? Moi?

And don't confront, correct, find out where the atheist is wrong and explain it.

For instance I want to know why your god needed so much violence to enact it's plans, not just the whole nailing up Jesus business (invented well before the Romans by the way, they got it from Carthage, same thing with their war ships) but the wars that followed, first the ones Constantin fought against his rivals for the throne (Won a critical battle because his enemy tried to get sneaky with a trick bridge)and then the ones the Empire fought to spread Christianity and destroy paganism (did a pretty good job too, only the tips of the Uk and the deepest deserts and highest mountains in the south and east stayed non-Christian).

Why couldn't have your god spread Christianity without killing people?

There is a chance that you are a Christian because one of your ancestors a long time ago was forced to convert by sword point.

If it did happen that way do you think it right?

Puff the Magic Dragon said...

My ancestors come from a small Roman Garrison town in Italy. My ancestors were most likely Roman Soldiers married to local women. My male ancestors crucified Christians for sport. For all I know my ancestor nailed Christ to the tree. Trust me no one forced my ancestors to become Christians.

salvage said...

Wow, you can track you family that far back? Neat!

At any rate a vast majority were converted via war and violence.

Puff the Magic Dragon said...

No, I have not. But I have researched my ancestral home. And I have done genealogical research and taking into account the location of my ancestral homes and their origin as a Roman Garrison town, my educated guess is such that there are most likely Roman Soldiers in my family line. Ergo if there were Roman Soldiers it would be logical to assume that my ancestors did the same as the other Roman Soldiers, which included persecuting Christians and every other group of people deemed dangerous to the empire or republic depending on the year.

The other possibility is that my ancestors were those Romans and Italians who voluntarily converted to Christianity, even though they knew it would buy them a one way ticket to the Colosseum.

Though this latter assumption doesn't hold much water. Entire families were thrown to the lions. - There is less probability that these martyrs' descendants survived.

I make my assumptions based on research of my family tree and ancestral home.

YOu made your assumptions based on what?? Law of averages.

salvage said...

YOu made your assumptions based on what?? Law of averages.

Sure, why not?

Of course we will never know the truth of it, history doesn't get that fine in the details sadly.

But overall Christianity's current status and the Vatican's vast wealth and power was borne from acts of hideous violence and cultural genocide.

And that begs the question was that your god's plan?

Puff the Magic Dragon said...

Salvage: You are delving into the fields of God's Ordained Or Perfect Will vs His Permissive Will

I must admit that I have a very basic understanding of it and my concern is that my answer would lead to more questions that I cannot answer. I therefore direct you to this link, that might be better able to define the difference.

salvage said...

Ah yes, they're trying to figure out the paradox of a perfect god having an imperfect creation and naturally they can only come up with convoluted workarounds like:

His answer (but if I recall, is essentially that formulated by Boethius, though I don't know where) was that all of eternity is seen by God as one present reality. And in this way, His will does not affect any of the actions that we have freedom to make

Which doesn't solve the paradox in the slightest.

You god being all powerful knows everything that is going to happen before it happens, even before it does them!

Therefore prayer requests for action is pointless, it's already going to do what it already knows its done/going to do.

Judaism really painted itself into a philosophical corner with an omnipotent god and Christianity aggravated it further by declaring that their god has a plan, omnipotence doesn't need plans, if it wants something to happen it's already happened.

Scripture to keep in mind

Six things there are, which the Lord hateth, and the seventh his soul detesteth: [17] Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, [18] A heart that deviseth wicked plots, feet that are swift to run into mischief, [19]A deceitful witness that uttereth lies, and him that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep the commandments of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother. ***Cf:Douay-Rheims Proverbs 6: 16-20


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